tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post4360126914474964309..comments2023-10-07T12:15:50.446+01:00Comments on The Centre Left: Faith schools: a bad idea just got worseRob Marchanthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11534810369839848312noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-42421084224256805732012-01-04T08:49:29.902+00:002012-01-04T08:49:29.902+00:00Whilst I totally disagree with the premise of this...Whilst I totally disagree with the premise of this article it hasn't raised my hackles in the way that someone else writing it would.Also would you agree that whilst it is someone's right to disagree with religious teachings is one thing it's another thing entirely to make disparing remarks as Mary Honeyball did during the HFE bill in 2008 when she accused the Catholic church of having a vice like grip on parts of Europe andsaying that devout Catholics shouldn't really serve on the frontbench if they listen to the Pope's word!Would you also agree it would be wise that we treat these issues as a matter of conscience rather than politics as we had to learn to our cost especially in the late 80's/early 90's when certain elements of the party tried to make it obligatory to vote against amending the Abortion Act and even going as far to propose the publication of a blacklist of doctors and nurses who refused to take take part in abortions!Sorry if I am off message but I felt it was relevant to the issue of faith in general and the direction of the party!Damienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10424550853436211546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-87586827296054258312011-02-26T10:56:35.367+00:002011-02-26T10:56:35.367+00:00Not sure I agree with you about Blair damaging Mus...Not sure I agree with you about Blair damaging Muslim relations here in the UK - we can agree or not with his actions, but we shouldn't say "we deserve it" because a terrorist tries to kill us.<br /><br />Then of course you let them out of jail and offer them seats as MP's.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186557603493331701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-79780485946851980372011-02-23T21:36:42.153+00:002011-02-23T21:36:42.153+00:00I also wanted to take the time to comment on Steph...I also wanted to take the time to comment on Stephen Smith's thoughtful piece at Uncut, which was posted today.<br /><br /><br />Stephen: <br /><br />I think that we actually agree on quite a lot, although I respect your points against. My points were threefold: that I am concerned about faith schools because they may not respect children's rights; that they may encourage segregation; and that they may, in a tiny number of cases, provide fertile ground for extremists because of our lack of historic success in confronting this problem inside (particularly Moslem) communities.<br /><br />To be clear, I do not for a moment suggest that we should go out and shut down all faith schools, even though I personally am not keen on them. Neither am I suggesting stopping religious education, which I think should be mandatory. So, I am not looking for a "wholly secular education system" as you suggest I am. I simply insist that we respect the rights of children to choose their own religion within that. So while compulsory multi-faith religious education is to be welcomed, mono-faith education should not be compulsory if the child chooses to reject it. In a faith school, the latter becomes difficult. That is the extent of my radical thinking (i.e. not very).<br /><br />On the second point, from your final para I think we agree pretty much, if I understand you correctly. On the third we clearly disagree, and let me explain where I take issue with your argument.<br /><br />I think your example Catholic schools is interesting, but wrong. I can understand entirely why there would be no greater propensity towards terrorist indoctrination in Catholic schools, for a few reasons: because firstly Northern Ireland has history of terrorism both inside AND outside the Catholic community<br /><br />Secondly, the comparison is awkward because there is less history of terrorists deliberately trying to infiltrate communities clandestinely in cells, to "convert" young people to fanaticism, as is happening in various Moslem communities. It is (or rather was) much more out in the open, it runs in families and the police know where to find people if they need to. Here they don't. In other words, Islamist terrorists and Roman Catholic ones are very different in this sense.<br /><br />I really wish I could say I shared your confidence that the Northern Irish Catholic model would be replicated in the Moslem communities of the mainland. But I can't, in all honesty. As an aside, I think it would be interesting to take a sample view of a few police chiefs on the subject.<br /><br />Finally, I think you are quite right that we have to respect the views of those who want faith schools. But they also must share in their responsibilities to make sure it is done right. And - careful! - things which are "popular with quite a large number of people" should not necessarily form a basis for policy. With that logic we should bring back corporal and capital punishment, and various other things which I think we are all better off without.<br /><br />Thanks again for your thoughtful piece, I enjoyed reading it.Rob Marchanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11534810369839848312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-75295147640183368222011-02-23T17:19:54.010+00:002011-02-23T17:19:54.010+00:00Agree totally. The thing is, not all situations ar...Agree totally. The thing is, not all situations are the same. A faith school in Belfast or Leicester is not the same as an RC school in the English countryside. But you can't discriminate easily between these cases with legislation - therein lies the danger.<br /><br />Re Watt, I thought you might have meant the Labour Party after my esteemed former colleague Peter, who was actually rather a good general secretary. Anyway, I bet you were delighted to find out it was all a joke!Rob Marchanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11534810369839848312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-26575163135588682622011-02-23T17:13:02.072+00:002011-02-23T17:13:02.072+00:00Faith schools are pernicious in Northern Ireland w...Faith schools are pernicious in Northern Ireland where they perpetuate ghetto mentality. As for After Watt it sprang from a comment my ex-fiancee made "What came after Watt?" I spent a day looking up philosophy and that night she said it had just been a joke. You must have brought me luck, today is the 33rd anniversary of my leaving school. It was a sink school near the East End. On Facebook I accidentally came across one of the "staff". Still a far right f**kwit. Adios!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-51996896810044469282011-02-23T10:12:37.620+00:002011-02-23T10:12:37.620+00:00Firstly welcome to the Centre Left, Joe.
I agree...Firstly welcome to the Centre Left, Joe. <br /><br />I agree on abolition of grammars - I went to one for sixth form which was outstanding. On faith schools, I actually think there are a lot of RC schools which do a good job, and the potential problem of isolationism is certainly lesser there than for, say, Muslim or Orthodox Jewish schools. But I think it's always dangerous to allow young minds to think that, for example, being gay will send you to Hell. Given that it's almost inevitable some sort of faith school setup will perpetuate, I believe it's about doing it in a sensible way.<br /><br />Not sure I agree with you about Blair damaging Muslim relations here in the UK - we can agree or not with his actions, but we shouldn't say "we deserve it" because a terrorist tries to kill us.<br /><br />PS I have just checked out your After Watt blog - which Watt is that?Rob Marchanthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11534810369839848312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7741861999194728080.post-23963085023348946432011-02-22T19:22:53.046+00:002011-02-22T19:22:53.046+00:00Faith schools first and when I attended an RC Boys...Faith schools first and when I attended an RC Boys Secondary in the 1970s it was about 90% RC staff (I will not dignify many of them by saying teachers). Labour's abolition of grammars was one of their worst ever mistakes. Now to Turkey - nationalism is the new religion. Finally Islam in modern London, one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter. Blair's slavish adherence to Washington did much harm to the Umma here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com